Episode 4: How to Discover your Purpose with Natalie Neilson Edwards

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Natalie Neilson Edwards is the Global Director of Inclusion and Diversity at the Estée Lauder Companies. On this episode of the Chroma Radio podcast, she chats with Daneshé on her path to a career in corporate Diversity & Inclusion. She lets us in on the way her upbringing as a daughter of Jamaican immigrants has influenced the way she views the need for inclusivity, ways you can tell if the path you’re on is right for you, and why you should never take no for an answer when it comes to your dreams and future.

Whether you’re looking to pursue a career in corporate Diversity & Inclusion, are a college student seeking mentorship and clarity, or looking to pivot in your career through an MBA program, Natalie has the insight to share with you!

Sign up for The Chroma Radio Newsletter to receive tips on personal & professional development (and occasionally style) by visiting www.thechromanetwork.com/podcast

Transcript

Daneshé 0:00
Natalie Nielson Edwards is the proud Daughter of to make and immigrants. She’s a lover of travel equality. And when she’s not watching 90-day fiance she’s taking charge at the Estee Lauder Companies is a global executive director of inclusion and diversity. When you listen to Natalie speak, you can truly tell that the passion she has for her work runs deep, and in every way possible. It seems like a divine calling. You’re tuned in to the Chroma Radio Podcast, the show for the women who didn’t just end up here.

I’m your host, Daneshé Henry, founder of the Chroma network, an online platform kicking down the barriers of early-stage career development, and helping you move on up the ladder of life with confidence, style, and most importantly, intention. Together, we’ll get into the nitty-gritty of mindset development, for finding everyday experiences, and thoughtful conversations with women making major moves in the real world. So let’s get into today’s episode. So there are a few questions that I like to start with just to paint a picture for our audience of who you were in the beginning stages of your career. So you’re currently globally executive director of inclusion and diversity at the Estee Lauder Companies. But what was your very first job? And what did it teach you?

Natalie 1:16
Oh, my God, it’s so high and lovely to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I love the Chroma network and what it’s actually meant to do so. It’s such an honor to answer that question. Oh, God, my first job. I was a waitress at Johnny Rockets. When I was 15, in Sugarland, Texas. And this was like the early 2000s. So back then, I don’t know if it’s still the case. But if you worked at Johnny Rockets, you had to wear khakis, you had to wear like the 1950s. Like paper hat, you also had to, there were certain songs that would play and if you heard them, like stayin alive was one of them. You had to stop what you were doing, go to the front of the restaurant with other servers and do a choreographed dance. Wow.

So you can imagine, I mean,

definitely taught me humility. It taught

servant leadership. And you know, it’s interesting, that was my very, very first job, where I was earning a paycheck. And working in restaurants, I highly recommend everybody in life, whether it’s working in a restaurant, or, you know, driving for Uber, anything in a position of service, I think teaches you a lot. Because it makes you realize that we really are all equal. And when you work in restaurants, you are literally providing someone’s like fundamental need, which is eating, right. So you can’t control who is at your table, you can’t control how many tables you have, you can’t control. I mean, there were days in the restaurant where it was quiet in there for like hours, and then all of a sudden, 300 people would walk in. And so for me, at that age, it taught me teamwork. It taught me that, you know, one of the things that really matters was, you know, did you pull up for your colleagues? Like, there was no, oh, that’s not my table. In the restaurant business. You had to cover for each other, you have to be there for each other. And that was really where I learned in that first job, that the excuse of that’s not my job is not acceptable, you know. And so really, it also prepared me I didn’t even know this until thinking about it when you ask that question is like a taught me actually how to be a people manager. Because even this day, yes, I am an executive director, but I do things that are above my paygrade all the time, and I do things that quite frankly, are below my pay grade all the time. And that’s what makes me effective is my team knows that at the end of the day, I will jump in shoulder to shoulder with them and help them and I in business school, I learned that leadership is not being in a tower and yelling commands, it’s being shoulder to shoulder doing the work. That’s true leadership. And that’s how you get the team that’s effective. And that’s how you get the team that actually makes a difference. So thanks Johnny Rockets.

Daneshé 4:18
So you spent your undergrad years at Howard University. So going from that Johnny Rockets experience into college, like what was your vision of your future self? Did you know what you wanted to do?

Natalie 4:30
Well, yeah, so I,

just to be clear, I worked in Johnny Rockets in high school, and this was this and then I decided to go to Howard. And I didn’t know that I mean at the time and this has to be said at the time. If diversity and inclusion was a career it certainly wasn’t as public and as central and as in our daily conversations, as you know, business professionals back then. today. Back then you did not see Diversity and Inclusion as Auris in Harvard Business Review did not see Business Insider covering it, it certainly wasn’t being taught as explicitly in business schools and MBA programs. So darsena inclusion at the time at many companies was someone sitting in HR, doing more compliance work, which is essentially running reports on what the workplace demographics were, you know, filling out, you know, required documentation about EEOC, you know, things like that. It certainly wasn’t as strategic as it is today. And in college, I had no idea that this is what I wanted to do, because I had no idea it existed. Right? What I wanted to do, actually, when I went to college as I really wanted to be an international lawyer, my mom had worked at the UN when she was younger and and I thought that was kind of cool. So I felt that I would be like a diplomat or something. But now looking back,

I’m like, oh, okay, what was woven through that was I wanted to work with multiple cultures, I wanted to drive change human rights was where it was really interesting to me. Now I see that that is directly in line with diversity inclusion. So again, listening to this, I would recommend that they be very clear on what they want to do, but be very detached from the job title, ie clear on what you want to do in terms of like, what matters to you. For me, that’s human rights, bringing people together, making people feel like they can do anything they want, providing safe spaces for people. And I thought that would be packaged as a lawyer. And I’m so glad that I didn’t cling to that with dear life, because I would have missed the job I have today. If I was like, I’m going to law school, you know, law or nothing. For me, I tell everybody look at the qualities underneath the job you want, versus the job title, because sometimes an even better career may be an opportunity for you that you didn’t see coming, because you’re so focused on that one thing. Yeah.

Daneshé 6:51
So I guess going off of that, I think you highlighted that it’s really important to focus on values, skills, traits over that one specific job title and sticking to it. So during your college years, did you have a strategy for building up your resume and getting involved in certain activities, or did that fall into place naturally,

Natalie 7:09
I mean, it didn’t fall into place naturally. I mean, again, I’m kind of a unique case, because as the story goes, like I said, I wanted to be a lawyer. I also entered college in 2008. I remember I was at Howard for three months, I was 18 years old when I voted for obama the first time. And so that was probably my best college experience, to be honest, being at Howard, when the first black president was elected, what was also going on, that was the recession, right. And so for me, as someone who worked throughout high school, to be able to go to college, also was seeing many of my friends, his parents be laid off due to the recession, people who had worked for 2030 years at the same place, just to be let go like that, you know, for me, and a lot of people that entered college around that time, really were focused on safety.

I wanted to be a lawyer,

but I didn’t want to major in political science, because I thought to myself, okay, if something happens, where I’ve heard a lot right away, what are my options? Yeah. And yet the titles, okay, well, if I have a political science grade, I didn’t grow law school, I’ll be a teacher or something, I don’t know. But I didn’t really see that there were a lot of options there. So for me, I did a lot of research. And I found that you can go to law school with any major in college. And so I picked finance, actually, because I knew that if there was a gap for any reason, between when I graduated college, and when I went to law school, I could at least get a good-paying job and do multiple different things. It was more of a skill versus a passion. And interestingly, I met my now-husband, but boyfriend at the time at Howard as well, who also wanted to be an attorney. And he’s currently an Attorney for the state of New Jersey, and he was political science. And when we got together and started studying for the LSAT, I remember this blatantly. We both had a big, you know, those huge LSAT books.

Yeah. And five minutes in opening those up together. I was there with my book, he was there with his book, I was bored to tears.

And I looked up at him and he looked like he was reading a great novel.

He was just like, so excited for who I remember myself. Okay, if I was meant to be a lawyer, that is how I should look when I’m reading

this, because if I can’t even read an outside book, How am I going to read the hundreds of thousands of pages I have to read in law school itself. So fast forward, we’ve been married for four years now we’ve been together for 10. And he still goes to work every day with a smile on his face, because he loves a lot. And I am not a lawyer, but I still fight for people. I still instill change. And you know, the things I get to read, like the latest research reports on microaggressions

or, you

know, pay equity make more light up in the same way. So I just thought your question was did it come about naturally? Absolutely not. In fact, I went on a path that I thought I wanted and realize that it’s and I’m glad because if I had been a political science major a junior in college realizing I didn’t want to go to law school, I felt I probably would have been stuck, you know, that weren’t as transferable of a skill as business. So I’m actually glad in hindsight that I made that decision.

Daneshé 10:11
So then after you graduated, you went into HR strategy at Deloitte and your four years there, you went from an analyst to senior consultant, and you did get to touch on a lot of diversity and inclusion projects there. I know you plan on the company’s first Inclusion Conference. So what kind of employee were you as an analyst versus a senior consult Oh, man,

Natalie 10:31
and for the people that are on the listening to this that may not be as familiar with consulting, I highly recommend it as a job right after college if you get the opportunity, because it teaches you so many different things, it’s almost multiple jobs in one. So for me, as an analyst I came in, I actually was on the financial side helping to run the financials again, because it was I was a finance major that was very transferable for me. And interestingly, I just want to share this because I’m very transparent. And I just want to make sure that nobody hearing this thinks that like, I’m perfect, or, you know, I was like the best at Howard or something I was not I had a 3.1 GPA and actually went to like, came on campus to recruit to be a consultant, you had to have a 3.5. So I literally did get, you know, selected to resume review or interview for consulting opportunities. So what I did was, I actually found that their consulting practice had open roles in the finance department, and you had to have a 3.0 for that. So I dropped my resume for that, and got into that for a year. And in that year, what I was doing was all the consulting projects that were going on with the people with the 3.5. and above, I had to go to the senior leader and run their financials and show them, okay, projects are profitable. Here’s why I cut back, here’s your sped like, all those financial details. And I was able to get close with the partners, and they start to see me as someone who did my job well, and really was a trusted advisor, and I was able to bring instead of just bringing reports, like, Here you are, I was able to advise and really be strategic with them. Um, and in that position, what was really cool is I got firsthand like vision into the changes that were happening at Deloitte. So I did federal consulting, and so they were starting to acquire, you know, small businesses, and when they were acquired, I would have to help move them from their financial system to ours. And really, so I had a front row seat to seeing how companies change, or how culture works, or people are on boarded. And so that in combination with being close up partners, and then seeing my work, they serve to say, you know, Natalie, you really have a knack for this, have you considered Human Resources consulting? And I’m like, oh, not really, you know, not really. And over time, they’re like, No, no, no, no, you need to come over. So after that first year, I was shoulder to shoulder with some of the people who had the 3.5. So I bring that story, because it’s easy, like when you’ve been working for so long to be on a podcast, where someone is like, Oh, yeah, you went from this to this to this. And listeners are like, wow, that was really interesting how they made those moves, I just want to be transparent about it wasn’t peaches and roses. And I wouldn’t be where I am today, if I didn’t take that finance job to get into the door at Deloitte. Because literally, they checked me out my GPA, like oh, no, I mean, like, you don’t have 4.5 you’re not an otter student, or whatever it was.

Daneshé 13:16
Yeah. And I think it’s so important that you highlighted that, because I think that while you’re still in college, or at least in its very early stages, it’s easy to kind of get caught up in the metrics, like my GPA isn’t high enough for me to like, actually follow through with what I want. But you actually went into the company anyway, and still found a way to seek out those opportunities for leadership. So I think that’s really key. So you started your your career in the HR D&I space, like at a very reputable company. So what pushed you to kind of take that next step and pursue your MBA?

Natalie 13:46
Oh, man, um, and I just share this because, you know, there’s sometimes our journeys aren’t, as you know, one plus one equals two, bring AI. And this is this is so interesting, because hindsight is always 2020. Now, I see that I was always meant to do diversity work, but at the time, I had no clue and you look back at all offense, but at the time, it seems very random. Oh, and I was at Deloitte, I was in HR consulting, and I was mostly doing like technology projects for like large HR organizations and federal agencies. So I would come in to health and human science, health and human services or, you know, IRS or like these large agencies work with their HR departments to like update their personnel records, or whatever it was to make them more efficient. And around that time, these were the years where many of the large consultancies were starting to really research diversity and inclusion. This is around the time where McKinsey was really doubling down on its women’s research, the white was doubling down on his inclusion research, so on and so forth, because every consultancy kind of wanted to own a slice of that a lot of our clients wanted diversity and inclusion work and strategy and the consultancies, were really trying to figure out what the future of that work look like. So I I had a lot of opportunities that came my way that I wasn’t expecting. So like I said, delete wanted to plan its first Inclusion Conference for their clients. And I was given the opportunity to be on the planning team for that. Another thing was one of my clients was a large agency that had a large workforce out in the field. And a lot of their workforce was set to in this very specialized role that was very important to the agency were skewing older and they were having a hard time recruiting younger folks. And they knew that unless they really targeted millennials, they would have a problem in about 10 years because most of their workforce in that specific role was eligible for retirement. And unless they’re filling that with younger people to make sure that that specialization continues, they were going to end up with no employees quite quite. And so that was kind of how D&I strategy kind of came on the scene for me as an HR consultant, because that became an HR strategic question, how do we hire how do we pipeline? How do we be inclusive, with age with race, all those things. And so before there was even a D&I label on it, I was being asked to do this work. And I found it fascinating. At the time, for people that work in consulting, you know, around the three or four year mark, people start leaving to get to go to business school. And at the time, I kind of did an analysis and I said, Okay, I want to go to business school. So it’s always kind of been on my mind, it seems like now is the appropriate time to go, I did some research on it, I joined a few prep programs that I highly recommend for anyone listening. But I did some reflection too. And I said, Okay, what do I like about consulting? Because I didn’t hate it. Right? I just knew it wasn’t the optimal job for him. Yeah, I didn’t. I didn’t look at those partners and aspire to that, you know what I mean, I knew, but there was also a great job, and I loved it. And then I looked at also what I didn’t really care for in the consulting, lifestyle. And I also, like I said, this whole time, I was actually working in restaurants because that first Johnny Rockets job, taught me a lot, but also made me love hospitality. And I thought I wanted to go to business school to one day run my own restaurant consultancy, particularly for people of color and immigrants, who own restaurants because I found that in bouncing around restaurants, it was not equal. It was not equal with how they’re run, what policies and procedures there were and I felt like a lot of immigrants, people of color star restaurants as a lifeline and as a way to share their culture with their neighborhoods, but they’re the quickest to shut down or to be and again, I was living in DC at the time. So I was literally seeing with my own eyes, gentrification. Yeah, happening. And so yeah, that’s what I want it to be. So I just want to be transparent that I went to business school thinking I would work in hospitality. And now looking back, I’m like, wow, okay. Even my immigrant restaurant mentale was diversity and inclusion strategy. You know, it just happened to be targeted toward a specific industry.

Natalie 18:00
So do you think that you could have gotten to this point in your career without that MBA experience? Or like, what did the Wharton or the general MBA experience give you that you think was unique?

Natalie 18:11
Yeah, no, I think I would have gotten to the exact same place without my MBA, the way I explained it to people is like, you know, as I said, My husband is an attorney. So I saw firsthand what goes into that. Law School, medical school, dental school, a lot of other graduate schools, you could not be in that profession without going through that experience. Like you’re not just pull up and decide you want to be a lawyer. That’s not how it works. You have to go to law school, you have to sit for the bar exam, and you have to pass.

That’s it. Well, you can’t just decide

whereas MBA, you could be in 2028 years old, I mean, making a million dollars off a tick tock, okay, like,

yeah, you’re like, you know, you don’t have a

Natalie 18:54
specific program and pass a certain national exam, to qualify to be a CEO. So MBAs are very different. But I, the way I explain it to people is that and shout out to my, like, 90s babies, but like, when you play Mario Kart, you’re running the, you know, you’re driving on the track with everyone else, you’re trying to win the race. And then if you run into one of those gems, you go a lot faster, real quick, when you slow down. And MBA, in my opinion from a good school is like that, where Yeah, you will get to the finish line, no problem. It’s not like it’s only available for people who get the gem. But a gem is when you is when you want to go a little faster, and I feel like I would have ended up sure in diversity and inclusion without getting an MBA, but I feel like my MBA propelled me to be able to do this job quicker to get into the what I wanted to do quicker. Many people use top MBAs as a method of being able to pivot, whether it be industries or even roles. And also I’ll always highly recommend getting the best MBA you can for what you’re looking for, because I also think I’m more effective in my day. And I job because I went to Wharton, I was taught in an even deeper way how to think analytically, more strategically apply so many different skills. And I think an MBA is a really good training ground, even beyond college business classes, because it’s more of a conversation about managerial leadership strategy, how to lead a team, it’s almost like business 2.0. And so to answer your question, I just want to encourage everyone listening that like, you don’t have to get an MBA to do what you want to do, I think that has been proven over and over again. But at the same time, if you’re going to get an MBA, don’t just get one to get one be strategic about what you want to get out of that education. And pick a program that will best suit what you’re looking for. Because it really is play a write a gem and Mario Kart.

Daneshé 20:57
So you also, again, were very active in the diversity space at your time at work, you you work closely with the dean on behalf of the Graduate Students Association is a VP of diversity. And you were one of the only students to do that. So there’s like a very common thread between Deloitte and your interest in hospitality. We’re in your work now. And in terms of your interest in activities that you took part in? So did you come into grad school knowing that you had this social mission? Or was it more of an organic thing?

Natalie 21:26
No, I didn’t. And like I said, I had classmates who knew exactly what they wanted to do, who whether they wanted to work in wall street or in technology, or whatever. And like I said, I entered thinking I would work in hospitality. I interned at Southwest Airlines, and it was president of the hospitality club at Wharton, and thought I wanted to do that. But you know, sometimes, there are other plans in life that come in, I joined I came up at war in I started classes, and I’d also just gotten married. And so I started a online company called broomstick that was intended to help women of color be able to find wedding vendors that understood their cultural needs. So again, again, looking back, I’m like, duh, diversity inclusion. And I also got there and, you know, look to my left, look to my right, and I felt that Wharton could be a little bit more diverse in terms of typically African American representation. And just to be clear, there were other students at Wharton, who were very active in diversity work for their representative populations. But for me, it was really I was really passionate, quite frankly, I felt like I could make an impact with getting more black talent at the school. And so I really got involved with that. But No, I didn’t. Again, at the time, I had no clue that there was something out there called diversity and inclusion, that the work I was doing on Wharton was literally what those people did for their companies. And so I just want to encourage everyone listening, get involved with what you’re passionate about, because you might be surprised two years and three years in, after you’ve been doing something for free,

Daneshé 22:53
you can get paid for it.

Natalie 22:56
Yeah, doors will open up for you to do it and get paid and and I never, I’d like there was never on my mind that this what I was doing at Wharton could turn into a career. And to me, I tell everybody, like, if you don’t want to do something for free, then you probably aren’t gonna be motivated to do it. Well, even if you are paid. Because there, you know, I I truly see my job right now doing inclusion and diversity as a passion of mine. And I don’t have to motivate myself to get out of bed in the morning because I was doing this work, in addition to a full course load at Wharton, you know, those classes are not easy, right? Like Not at all, it would have been hard enough to get up and get through a Wharton MBA, while also being a newlywed while also figuring out life. You know, with my husband living in a new city, we moved from DC to Philly, I learned more in not even two weeks after my wedding day that will help. You know I mean, the transition was. So it would have been easy for me to sit back and just get through my classes and make sure I get a job and an internship. But I love this work so much that I was able to do it for free in addition to that course, load and so that now looking back in hindsight, when you combine that with what I was doing at Deloitte, what I was doing in college, and even what I was doing in high school showed me that like this is what I am meant to do, right. So

now make it my career.

Daneshé 24:18
Yeah, it seems like everything just kind of fell into place, like the way that it was meant to but I mean, what was the impact of that role in terms of the work that you were doing? Like how did it affect your plans or your vision for your plans, at least post grad? what I was doing at Wharton? Yeah, in terms of the diversity work with the dean.

Natalie 24:36
Yeah, so those two years at work, we we meaning the country in the world saw things like Charlottesville, the Muslim ban, yeah, I don’t know if you remember that situation that happened at that Starbucks where there were two men who got police called on because they hadn’t ordered anything. Well, what many people didn’t realize and if you look it up, you’ll find out that Starbucks was in Rittenhouse Square. Philadelphia, which is a neighborhood where 95% of Wharton MBAs live.

Natalie 25:04
Remember that? Yeah. So this

Natalie 25:05
was happening when I was VP of diversity at the Wharton School directly advising the dean on inclusion matters. And here we have racial, I mean, like viral racial profiling happening downstream. I mean, when I tell you that was the Starbucks, where on my birthday, I got a latte, like, not out of the way from where I was, like, just a walk. And so for me, it was a little too close to home. And it kind of fueled the question, I remember speaking with my professors about this, about what corporate D&I would turn into, right, because, again, at the time, if you were doing diversity work, you really weren’t Central, you really weren’t part of global conversation in terms of your company’s reputation in terms of your company’s activities. And I think now we all can look back and kind of laugh a little bit of weight. There was a time just less than five years ago, when we weren’t, you know, looking to see what companies were doing about diversity and inclusion. So publicly, well, that has all changed in the past few years. But I remember at were in that was all over the press that was all over social media about what Starbucks was doing. I remember when they decided to close all of their stores and have unconscious bias training as a result of what happened at the Starbucks just down the street from my apartment. And so for me, it was kind of a almost a live case study of Wait a minute, is this a career? I mean, because at the time I was helping, were in, you know, develop unconscious bias training, and they had just announced hiring Professor query who was going to come in and teach diversity at the Wharton School. So like these, this was stuff that I was very close to at the Wharton level. And it kind of opened my eyes to saying, Oh, my God, if Starbucks, which is this huge conglomerate is having these levels of public conversation about driving change, what are other companies doing? And is this something that I want to pursue? Right?

Daneshé 26:56
So now you’re at Estee Lauder, and a pretty impactful position. So what does it mean to you to be a woman of color at such a major beauty conglomerate doing this work?

Natalie 27:05
Oh, my God. I mean, I and I speak for myself here. it’s mind blowing, and also a tremendous responsibility to me to do this work at this organization. To me, there is no separating beauty and inclusion, right? Right, you can have the best products on your face. But if you’re on an environment where you feel others, where you’re not welcomed, where you feel different and ostracized, you’re not going to feel beautiful, I could have $500 perfume on, it don’t matter if I’m hiding in the corner wanting to go home, right? I think we’ve all been at a situation, whether it’s a networking function, or party or event, in maybe in our careers, or even in our personal lives, or we’re like, I just want to go home because no one’s talking to me, or people are staring at me, or whatever it is, you don’t feel like you belong, right. And so for me, again, as a strategic thinker, and as someone who loves reading, like business case studies, and just someone who is forever in that business school mentality of like, what, you know, what’s the learning from this? To me? I feel very blessed to work in beauty D&I, because beauty is one of the only industries where you can lay out the products of a company and judge how inclusive they are literally in your face, you know, apple iphone, with an iPhone? Well as an iPhone as an iPhone, but a nation is not a foundation, if it’s not my shade, you know what I mean? Who are in your ads? Who do you speak to? You know, those are all you can tell by a shade range, almost as a proxy for how seriously a company takes inclusion. And so for me, beauty is central to inclusion, you can’t have one without the other. And then just more on a personal level, as a woman of color, which is your question, how do I feel working at this at a beauty conglomerate in doing this work? It is very personal for me because I don’t know if you can relate or people listening can relate. But I grew up going through magazines I grew up watching TV and never seeing myself never I remember the constant microaggressions of going to my friends pool party and them asking me why my hair didn’t get wet like theirs when we went underwater, like little things of like points of difference. All these like, question questions that children have. And you know, when you’re even when you’re five years old, you don’t get to be when you’re not in an inclusive environment. You don’t get to be five, you have to be ready to answer people’s questions about your points of difference. You have to be on defense all the time. For me being doing diversity work in the beauty. You know, industry is such a huge responsibility for me and what drives me is like, you know, I have a niece that’s three months old. I have people in my family that are very young and for me, the fact that I get to influence, quite honestly, whether or not the magazines that she will read, if she will have the same experience as me is very near and dear to my heart. Because when you see yourself, and you’re represented, and you’re seen as aspirational or beautiful, you know, if you put someone in a beauty ad, you’re communicating indirectly, that this person is beautiful, right? So who we put in our ads, who we make shapes for who we normalize as aspirational, right? Because beauty is an aspirational industry. And today, I can change whether someone feels like they are worthy, or if they have a place in this world, or if they can do anything, especially women, right and young girls. And so for me that I know that was a really long answer. I like that is what I think about when I have a lot of work to do, or I’ve had a long day or a long week, I really centralized myself on, you know, this work matters. And the beauty industry has power to normalize, who society aspires to and who they want to be, or who gets lifted up as someone to want to look like. And that is so such a tremendous and serious responsibility that I take very personally.

Daneshé 31:17
And do you feel like you’ve seen any significant shifts in terms of beauty standards, or in terms of marketing and advertising, at least since you’ve been at the company?

Natalie 31:28
Oh, for sure. I’m really proud of what the Estee Lauder companies has done. And and for those that don’t know, the Estee Lauder companies is not just Estee Lauder brand. It’s over 25 brands, everything from Tom Ford beauty to Mac, to Clinique, to Aveda, to Bobby Brown to Smashbox and 25 brands. And, for me, all those brands, all of our entire portfolio has tremendous opportunity to really lead and they have been in being more inclusive, and it’s a core value of our company. And I also am really encouraged by what we’re seeing on social media, not just at our company. But in general, I think society is changing because people of all looks all backgrounds, all sizes, have a platform and could potentially influence millions of people that potentially can follow them. So I think I’m really excited for the future of beauty. I’m really excited for the future of our society where there is space for everyone, and everybody has a level of influence

Daneshé 32:24
it close out, I’ll ask you a few rapid fire questions. So I guess I beat that you had all these experience centered around diversity and inclusion throughout your whole life? Pretty much. Um, what’s one myth about the industry that you would like to dispel or demystify?

Natalie 32:43
Oh, Lord, this is rapid fire I’m supposed to answer quickly

is the one myth about the diversity

that I want to get out the way I have a huge myth. Well, there’s two actually, is that you have to be really, really, really qualified to get in on the action. You know, like my own story shows, do the work where you are. And you can position yourself for a career, if I could do it, not even knowing it would be a career or it was a career, you can do it knowing what it is right? When I was doing this work, I couldn’t go on LinkedIn and network with people who work in diversity inclusion, because I did no idea that was the thing. Right? Now, if you’re looking to get into di work, you at least have a starting point you at least this podcast were this was there was no podcast where there’s a diversity when I was five years ago, right. And then number two, what I would say is a myth that I want to get out of the way is that once you are in diversity and inclusion work, the myth that I want to get out the way is that you are responsible 100% for diversity for your entire organization. And I tell people this all the time, even in my own organization for us to be inclusive. Everybody has to be almost their their own Chief Diversity Officer of their teams, of their business of their brands, their their departments, whatever it is, we all have a sphere of influence. And I think the same way, you know, you can’t be a people manager and say, oh, finances the CFOs responsibility. I don’t have to manage my own budget. Right? We shouldn’t be doing name with or we would never say Oh, my laptop is not working. That’s the fault of the chief. It officer. No, you know, I mean, call the help desk and figure it out. Yeah, the same way. We all are responsible to some degree about what is the diversity of our teams? Am I being inclusive to my colleagues? Am I raising Am I allowing everyone to speak? Am I pointing out that hey, there could be more diversity in this room? Am I am I being inclusive with who I mentor and sponsor? We all if we all do that, it adds up. You see what I’m saying? And people that work in diversity inclusion, simply show the strategy For how to get us from where we are today to where we want to go, but all of us have a hand in getting us there, right?

Daneshé 35:07
So what resources and it can be organizations or people were most helpful to you in your career journey, I guess from college to now.

Natalie 35:15
Oh my god. Well, explicitly, if you’re looking to get an MBA, I would highly recommend management leadership for tomorrow MLT. As well as the Forte foundation MLT is a leading organization for people of color who are interested in business school, they have an excellent, excellent prep program, I would not be where I am today without that program. And then forte Foundation has a similar program, but their focus is women of all backgrounds. So that’s why obviously intersectional woman of color here, I did both. So that’s it. Those are two resources, I would call by name. But in terms of other resources, I would just say probably mentors and sponsors, I would probably also call out a lot of books that I read. And now I think what’s really fascinating is, they’re great podcasts like this one, you know, put on an audiobook put on a podcast while you’re cooking dinner, you’d be amazed what you learn, as well as following chief diversity officers and other leaders on LinkedIn. And I set a reminder for an hour every Friday, to go on LinkedIn and see what’s happening there. People are posting articles, research point of views. And that just keeps me accountable to make sure that I’m not my head is not down my own company. And I’m seeing what other industries are doing that that could potentially be best practices that I can learn from, you see what i’m saying so and you don’t have to none of those things I just said, are under lock and key for diversity professionals only. If you work in finance, or human resources, or whatever you do right now or you’re in college. You too, can get on LinkedIn and see what’s poppin Yeah, and to start where you are, and stop believing the lie, we often tell ourselves that once I’m at a certain level, I can access what I need to get a head start where you are now and enter the conversation

Daneshé 37:02
now, right? I think that’s so important, because I feel like everything that we need to know, at this point is on the internet somewhere, it’s just a matter of finding it. So last question to close out the Chroma networks motto is for the women who didn’t just end up here. So we focus on uplifting women who really work to smash their goals and get what they want out of life. Can you tell us one trait or characteristic that you possess that allows you to get to this point in your career.

Natalie 37:30
The word I use is detachment.

So what I mean by detachment is not that you don’t care about your company, of course you care about your company, you cover your role, you take it very seriously, what I mean is detachment from outcome. detachment from a certain job title or detachment from getting promoted by the time you’re 30, or whatever it is, and just living in the moment and doing your best and not being paralyzed by negative feedback. Or when someone tells you No, keep doing the job and being open to what you can learn from it. Because when you’re detached in that way, you can go very far to what you’re meant to do, that I learned very early. And this even goes back to what I was talking about earlier with the recession, when I went to college is I saw very quickly how many people whose self esteem was wrapped up in I’ve worked for this company for 30 years, 40 years, 25 years, overnight, you know, was gone. And therefore they they almost didn’t know themselves, because it was like they didn’t know themselves outside of this company. Right. So for me, I learned very quickly how to define myself for myself and to be in line with my purpose. And that doesn’t mean I’m going to hop around companies or not care. But what that means is that, you know, I spend time really, I say affirmations every morning, I declare my purpose I and that allows you to not, you know, really get down on yourself if promoted as quickly as you might like, or you don’t, you know, I was detached when Deloitte said, Oh, you need a 3.5. And I still ended up at Deloitte because I just found another door when the doors go through the window. That’s literally what I did know, when I, I didn’t have at the time at Deloitte, I didn’t have they had at the time, a process where if you wanted to apply for them to pay for some of your MBA, you had to have a certain performance review two years in a row. I only had one year in a row, so I didn’t even qualify, okay, still got an MBA and I got accepted to eight different MBA programs. And I got the same full rides that half the people in the Deloitte program got but school paid for it and not too. So actually, is when he is learning the skill of hearing No, and not taking it. So personally, you see what I’m saying? I literally would be here today. If people told me No, and I stopped trying, or I, or I just found, you know, I just wanted to say that like the women that didn’t just get here, which is your motto comes with learning that the value is you though. Yeah, I think that a lot of and that doesn’t mean being entitled, it doesn’t mean being cocky or thinking the world revolves around you, you still have to be humble, you still have to know what you don’t know yourself to be able to take negative feedback. But I think for many of us, and again, my parents are both immigrants from Jamaica, I know a lot of people of color suffer with this, a lot of women suffer with this, a lot of people whose parents were not corporate suffer from this as well, where you are the first to work in corporate America, you are just grateful to be there. You know, you see a big name like a Deloitte or Goldman Sachs, or even an Estee Lauder, and you, you just have to be there, right? And you take part of your self worth from Oh my God, this large company chose me. And so for me, what I had to unlearn was, it’s okay to be you can be grateful to be somewhere and still be aware of what you want to do. You know, I was grateful to be at Deloitte Consulting, but I still had to think about is this what I want long term? And that led me to doing diversity work? If I was if I didn’t learn detachment, I still would be doing that consulting work. And not we’re probably not working in D&I or if I was I’d be doing it from a consultant perspective.